Freedom and Flexibility: Leaving 9 to 5 Behind For Real Estate Opportunities

Insiyah and Sibtain Panju are the co-founders of PRAGMA Incorporated, a real estate investment company focused on acquiring and developing multifamily real estate in Canada. They help professionals and high net worth individuals protect and grow their wealth in a tax efficient manner.  

Before becoming a full-time real estate investor, Insiyah was a high school math teacher.  She is also a realtor and a youth empowerment coach. Sibtain has a finance background and has over 20 years of banking experience. He leverages his experience in corporate finance and business strategy for his real estate business. 

PRAGMA Inc. has a strong commitment to giving back and making a lasting impact. Believing in universal access to clean water, food, and education, they actively contribute to the construction of water wells, sponsorships for orphans, and support education initiatives for underprivileged communities.

Connect with Insiyah and Sibtain:

• Website: www.pragmaproperties.com
• IG: @pragmaproperty
• Facebook
• Linked In – Sibtain
• Linked In – Insiyah

The ultimate real estate education platform awaits you! Find out more here:
https://www.wealthgenius.ai/

Check out our Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@wealthgenius

Follow WealthGenius on social media:
LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/wealthgenius
Facebook
https://facebook.com/wealthgenius
Instgram
https://instagram.com/wealthgeniushq
Twitter
https://twitter.com/wealthgeniushq

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Sibtain Panju, Carl Richards, Insiyah Panju, Alfonso Cuadra

Carl Richards  00:05

Welcome to the WealthGenius podcast! The WealthGenius podcast; strategies for multifamily real estate investing, mindset, community, success. The WealthGenius Podcast, with your host, The Godfather of Real Sstate, Alfonso Cuadra, who has expansive experience in business and massive success as a real estate investor. The WealthGenius podcast, let's dive in to today's episode.

Alfonso Cuadra  00:31

Well, hello.

Sibtain Panju  00:35

Hello Alfonso!

Insiyah Panju  00:36

Hey!

Alfonso Cuadra  00:36

What's going on guys?

Insiyah Panju  00:37

Not much. We're here with you. Very excited. Yeah.

Alfonso Cuadra  00:42

And I wanted to have you, I was talking to you. But then it's like, you get the email last minute, you know, I'm like, "Hey, I have an invite for you!" You know, and I want to thank you for coming on short notice first of all. You guys are incredible investors. And I know that you're going to come with a lot of knowledge here today. But I want to know, kind of where all this started. Right. So we're gonna I want to go back, you know, Sib, and Insiyah. First of all, tell me where the name came from. It's so unique. It's such a unique name.

Insiyah Panju  01:17

It is unique. It's Arabic origin.

Alfonso Cuadra  01:19

Ah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it before we started, I was sharing with you how terrified I am to mess it up, you know? But if I say someone's name over and over, then I-

Insiyah Panju  01:32

It imprints.

Alfonso Cuadra  01:34

Yeah, it imprints. But I want to know how you guys got started in this real estate? Craziness. Right? You gotta be crazy people like really?

Insiyah Panju  01:41

Yeah, that's- he starts with- he does the crazy part. 

Sibtain Panju  01:45

Fair enough. So we started investing in single family homes over the past 20 years. You know, and then, but we were also working on- focus on our careers. We both had had full time jobs. Insiyah was a high school teacher. I was working corp- in corporate finance. And then we had the kids. And so we didn't have any time for real estate investing per se, except for the single family homes. But, you know, we realized something had to change-

Alfonso Cuadra  02:09

But you were sill doing something. 

Sibtain Panju  02:11

We were still, we're still doing single family homes, 

Alfonso Cuadra  02:13

You still knew you had to do something. 

Sibtain Panju  02:15

Exactly. We did some occasional flips, single family homes, we had some couple of investments. And then we realized something had to change in 2019 we thought, "Okay, let's try and scale the real estate portfolio." And we got some education and training. That's where we met you in 2019. As well.

Alfonso Cuadra  02:30

Isn't it crazy? 

Sibtain Panju  02:31

It was a huge inspiration.

Insiyah Panju  02:32

Oh my god!

Alfonso Cuadra  02:33

Yeah. But when you when you talk about 2019, doesn't it seem like another world, like- 

Sibtain Panju  02:38

It's the pre COVID era. 

Insiyah Panju  02:39

I feel like every five years is a completely different life. 

Alfonso Cuadra  02:42

Yeah.

Insiyah Panju  02:43

It's like, if we look back five years, our life was so different. We were in full time jobs. You know, we're driving kids to hockey practice all the time. You know, there was no time to do anything else. 

Alfonso Cuadra  02:54

Yeah. 

Insiyah Panju  02:55

You know, but you know, what, to add on to what he was saying, in the background, you know, he's always had an eye for real estate, and it's something that he was always interested in. Because we would drive around, we'd look at properties. You know, we went to Waterloo, we were looking at, you know, just medical buildings, a lot of different kinds of things. And- 

Alfonso Cuadra  03:15

You were searching for something. 

Insiyah Panju  03:16

We were searching, but without the educational background, you don't know what to action on. 

Alfonso Cuadra  03:22

The other point would be that people just they know that real estate is good. I think that's something that I think we can all agree on. 

Sibtain Panju  03:30

Right.

Alfonso Cuadra  03:30

Whether it goes up and down or sideways that's always up for debate. But we all agree that over time, real estate has appreciated and it goes up in value. But not all real estate is good. And not all real estate is for everyone. Right? So everyone has different goals, what they want to achieve. And I think from where you guys started in terms of buying some single family homes, I think just by doing that you changed the trajectory of the way you would retire. Right? 

Sibtain Panju  04:00

Exactly. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:00

But what changed like because you you get to add some investments, you know, when you decided to do what? 

Sibtain Panju  04:07

Yes, so what happened in 2020 was COVID hit. Prior to that we had two kids in hockey we had our full time jobs and there was no work from home right so we'd be commuting quite a bit I had a job downtown at at a bank. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:19

But how much would you commute per day? 

Sibtain Panju  04:20

I would commute about an hour a day including including the GO train ride. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:24

Wow. So an hour there or an hour-

Sibtain Panju  04:26

An hour each way an hour each way, yeah. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:28

Thats 2 hours of your life!

Insiyah Panju  04:30

Yeah, come home rush and have dinner. Take the kids to hockey.

Alfonso Cuadra  04:33

You stuff your face with the food 

Sibtain Panju  04:35

Exactly. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:35

Cause you have no time and then you- oh my goodness. 

Sibtain Panju  04:38

Just go upstairs, change your clothes. I wear a suit to work every day. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:42

Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  04:42

And when COVID had it just gave us a lot of time. And we thought this is the perfect time to go and Real Estate was still open for business. 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:49

Yeah.

Sibtain Panju  04:49

So we went- 

Alfonso Cuadra  04:50

One of the only things.

Sibtain Panju  04:51

Yeah, we went to Kingston for a few days went to Windsor for a few days. The hotels there were like empty and we had a chance to walk through multiple buildings. Learn all about the real estate game, learn more about all the strategies. And we purchased our first two buildings in 20- in the middle of 2020, a few months after COVID hit.

Insiyah Panju  05:10

Yeah. And that's when I pivoted out of my job. Because with COVID, the teaching environment changed completely. And our business had picked up. And it was very clear over the summer that come September, when school starts again, I would not be able to do both. And I had to pick and so it was the easy pivot. 

Alfonso Cuadra  05:28

And so now, you're in this full time. Well one of you is.

Sibtain Panju  05:33

We both are.

Insiyah Panju  05:33

We both are.

Alfonso Cuadra  05:34

You guys said, Okay, we're jumping in. 

Sibtain Panju  05:36

Yeah, that's it. 

Alfonso Cuadra  05:37

We're jumping out of this plane. No parachutes. No going back. Right. And so what did that feel like? Like, what was that? You know, because I know what it was like with my wife, when she handed in her resignation letter and how, how that was, like, an emotional but exciting- you're closing one chapter and then your- your closing one door, and then you're opening up a new one. Right? And so how was that for you guys, like?

Insiyah Panju  06:04

So there's a little pre part before he quit. So I left my job in 2020. 2021, I got sick. 

Alfonso Cuadra  06:13

Ah ok. 

Insiyah Panju  06:14

Yeah. And so I think it was divine timing, because they didn't have to worry about work. I'd already transitioned into having our you know, our own business. But yeah, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. 

Alfonso Cuadra  06:25

Oh.

Insiyah Panju  06:26

Yeah. And so that- 

Alfonso Cuadra  06:27

Life changing.

Insiyah Panju  06:28

Life changing- Oh, it's life changing your- your world does a full 180. And, yeah, I had to go through all the treatment, very aggressive. And that was a real eye opener. And it was its own gift. Because I was lucky. Like, there's this area where you're diagnosed, but you don't have all the answers yet. Because all the test results haven't come back.

Alfonso Cuadra  06:51

And of course, your mind goes to the absolute- 

Insiyah Panju  06:53

Yeah!

Alfonso Cuadra  06:54

Worst case scenario, right?

Insiyah Panju  06:55

But you know what's interesting, the whole future, just suddenly is not there. 

Alfonso Cuadra  07:01

Doesn't matter. 

Insiyah Panju  07:02

And you realize, like you without realizing it, you have a plan for yourself. And then when you don't know how long your timeline is, all of a sudden, that's all up in the air. Right? So thank God everything came back, okay, in the sense that they're like, you're at a stage where it's curable. 

We're gonna go through everything, and probably in about eight months, you're gonna be okay, again, right? So we did that. And, but what that taught both of us is that life is short. Time is your biggest asset. Right? And so we became very intentional about how we spend our time and who we spend our time with.

Alfonso Cuadra  07:38

And so that they now have this life altering moment. And you guys leaned in real, like you went all in with real estate. And so what were some of the next moves after that, like?

Insiyah Panju  07:51

Well, you know, what, he- when I was sick, he took a 10 month sabbatical from work. And what that showed us, because the business was like this, and when he took the time off, it went like that. 

Alfonso Cuadra  07:59

Wow. 

Insiyah Panju  08:00

And then after the 10 months, it was 10 months, right? 

Sibtain Panju  08:05

10 months, yeah. 

Insiyah Panju  08:06

And he went back to work, it went- it plateaued again. Right. And so I think within two weeks of going back, he kind of-

Alfonso Cuadra  08:12

It's hard to go back, you know, it's like the movie The Incredibles. Yeah, Mr. Incredible goes and gets a nine to five job. You can fly through the air, but you're like this guy, you know, he's telling you what to do, you know, you got to ask permission for everything. So I can only imagine, that's why you felt you know, like, you know, you have all this potential.

And not only you stuck nine to five somewhere, but you got to commute there an hour each way. You know, that's a lot of time that could be invested, not only to do the things that you want to do, but spend time with your family, you know, doing the things that you'd love to do. 

So let's say someone's listening to this, and they're in a similar situation, they're commuting into work coming back, they have to ask to take a day off, they have to ask, they have to ask, but they're like everybody else where it's like, your mortgage comes in on the first you got your car payments, you got this, that the other. So what what should these people do? Like, how can they go down the path that you went down? Like, what is the first thing that you guys did in order to get out of the hamster wheel, you know?

Sibtain Panju  08:28

So, a couple of things is one one is get some education and training and get some some mentorship of people who have already been where you want to go, right?

Alfonso Cuadra  09:30

That's so key because that's a fast track. 

Sibtain Panju  09:33

Exactly, exactly. And then then on top of that, I mean, you know, one quick way to do things is partner up with somebody who can complement your your skills, right, and partner with somebody who knows what they're doing. And then that's also a fast track in order to get into the real estate game where you can make passive income you're not trading your time for money. 

Alfonso Cuadra  09:53

Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  09:53

Right. Like once we started investing more heavily in 2020. We just felt the shackles sort of come on. off, where we have the option to work. 

Alfonso Cuadra  10:02

Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  10:03

It's not like, you know, some people enjoy the careers and I enjoyed my career as well. But you know, there's no time flexibility, right? That's the issue. 

Alfonso Cuadra  10:10

Yeah.

Sibtain Panju  10:11

You're always trading your time for money, you always have to be there nine to five, Monday to Friday. Right? Like, even though you enjoy your career, you still want that option with some passive income. 

Alfonso Cuadra  10:20

The freedom for a lot of people. And this is a misconception, right? They're like, I'm going to quit my job. And I'm going to be an entrepreneur. And I'm going to get all this free time all of a sudden, right? But that first transition, that first jumped, sometimes you spend more time, but now it's worth it. It's like they went from the 40-40 plan to the 50-50 plan. But now it's all for you. And the more you work up front, the less you have to work later on. So was that similar to your experience? Or how did you set it up?

Sibtain Panju  10:54

So when we first transitioned from from work, like nine to five to the business, I thought I'd have more time? 

Alfonso Cuadra  11:01

Yeah, thats a fantasy!

Sibtain Panju  11:02

I thought I'd have at least like 30% more time. But what happens is, you have time flexibility, which is great. But then you might work a little bit on Saturday, you might work a little bit on Sunday, but you have the flexibility, but you're still working the probably the same number of hours, but you're enjoying your work. That's also the difference. 

Alfonso Cuadra  11:19

Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  11:19

And you're sort of choosing what you want to work on. 

Alfonso Cuadra  11:21

Yeah. And you're doing it together.

Insiyah Panju  11:23

Yes. And I think once you start scaling, you realize very quickly, you need very good systems and processes in place, so that your ship runs smoothly. Right. And so learning what those systems are, what's going to work for you how are we dividing up roles and responsibilities between us? Right, all of that is a learning curve.

Alfonso Cuadra  11:45

Which it brings up a really good question, right? Because there's the question that my wife and I get, it's like, how do you guys work together? Right? Usually, there's usually one or the other, will go into it, or whatever, it could be the wife, sometimes, you know, or the husband or whatever, or partners or you know, what have you. 

And you know, when you have a couple of dynamic, someone says, "Why- we still need that security thing." But then when two individuals decide to move forward, and that dynamic is really, I would say, delicate, you know, so my wife, and I get the same kind of questions. "How do you guys do it? Like you guys are just together 24/7?" People can't even fathom what that would be like, right? For us. 

It just like that's our life, you know, but we actually want to do a retreat for couples that work together, not a Couples Retreat, but couples that work together, right? Because I think that's a whole other dynamic. Because any other couple, I mean, if you're gone half the day, you guys don't see each other half the day, you come home, and it's easy to talk about your day. But if you're with each other all day long, like what are you going to talk about? Right? So what is that dynamic look like? And how was the adjustment? Right, because you were not seeing each other for the entire day. And now, there you are.

Insiyah Panju  13:06

Well our offices are on different floors.

Alfonso Cuadra  13:08

That helps!

Insiyah Panju  13:12

That helps. And I think, you know, we're not newlyweds. So we've been together for a long time. And I think, you know, you come to the business with the maturity and understand what each other's strengths are. And you play to those strengths. Right? And you come to the business the same way you would a marriage, right? 

The marriage is not 50-50. It's 100-100. Right? So if you're both in there to give it 100%, then if anyone falls short, the other person's there to fill it in. Right? I think that's what really, really helps us. And then like I said, the roles and responsibilities, I think at initially, there was overlap. You know, we're both sort of doing this. Are you responding? Am I responding? Right? And I think once we both delineated that- 

Alfonso Cuadra  13:57

And how does this happen, like, did you guys have a meeting? 

Insiyah Panju  13:59

Yes. 

Sibtain Panju  14:00

Yes, so we had we had a meeting, we had a spreadsheet, which just listed like maybe 40-50 tasks.

Alfonso Cuadra  14:05

Nice.

Insiyah Panju  14:06

All the key responsibilities, yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  14:08

And all the properties across the top. And we just went down and said, who's doing what, for which property and who's in which function, but certain functions we split by property, right? Because, you know, we have multiple property managers that we're dealing with. So it's a lot of touch points for one person, right? 

Alfonso Cuadra  14:26

Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  14:26

And then we're also starting to bring on some, some help, right?

Alfonso Cuadra  14:29

Yeah. Well, it can't be done without people. 

Sibtain Panju  14:32

Exactly. 

Alfonso Cuadra  14:33

Now, the other dynamic dynamic is when you have two bosses, two CEOs, you know, and then the dynamic of the people, you know, who do they come to, right?

Sibtain Panju  14:43

There's only one CEO, it's her. She's the boss, that's it.

Alfonso Cuadra  14:48

Good job, good job. But it has to be like those roles need to be defined to your, the people that work for you, right? Because it's like kind of like that mom and dad mentality where it's like If you say no, maybe I go to see mom and she'll say yes, Right? So how does that like the people that work for you, how does that dynamic work?

Insiyah Panju  15:09

I think it's a work in progress. It is. So because one person that we have now for operations, she's onboarded fairly recently, right? And so we're sort of at the stage where we're handing things off to her and stepping back. 

And so these are conversations we've been having over the past few weeks, you know, what are our roles going forward? Right, what is she taking on, now? What are we doing? What how are we spending our time working on the business rather than in it. right? So we're handing that part off? But it's, it's those conversations were okay, you know, you're talking her about that. So initially, for example, the bookkeeping, and you know- 

Alfonso Cuadra  15:46

Everybody's favorite part. 

Sibtain Panju  15:47

Oh, yeah. For sure.

Insiyah Panju  15:48

You know, what that is so critical. And it's, it's a challenge to find a strong bookkeeper.

Alfonso Cuadra  15:53

Yeah, it's not everyone's cup of tea. And, you know, when you first get into business, you start asking around who can do this, right, because obviously, everybody understands that it has to be done. But then people come back with a quote, and you're like, you know, I can do it cheaper, or I can find someone who could do it cheaper. That's the first mistake, you know, 

Sibtain Panju  16:16

Agreed agreed.

Alfonso Cuadra  16:17

Because then you have to go back to that person. And then they're gonna charge you a double to undo whatever mess was been had that had been done before. 

Insiyah Panju  16:26

Right. 

Alfonso Cuadra  16:26

So, and I've had many conversations about this, with so many business owners and entrepreneurs and investors, you know, you when the books get out of control, you're out of control, right. And it doesn't matter how much how many buildings you're buying, if everything is a mess, it's all going to be a mess. 

And it's going to be a mess up here. There's no bandwidth, because you always have that, like, "Oh, this is due, this is past due, this is now overdue. Now, this is overdue." And so that's a big hurdle for a lot of entrepreneurs. And it's a big transition from when you if you're going from a job, where there's accounting, where you just go do your job, right. 

And as a business owner, you kind of wearing all these hats, especially at the very beginning. And now you have to learn how to delegate. And also there's certain things that maybe you know, you're not used to, right, like accounting, and, you know, keeping track of your receipts and all these things. So, that could be a transition, would you agree?

Insiyah Panju  17:23

I would say so. But in our case, we're very fortunate. So Sib has a very strong background in finance. So he's used to runing-

Alfonso Cuadra  17:32

Yes sir!

Insiyah Panju  17:34

-Massive business cases, right? Where there's like, hundreds of line items. 

Alfonso Cuadra  17:37

Nice.

Insiyah Panju  17:38

Right? And they're gigantic portfolios and projects that he works on.

Alfonso Cuadra  17:41

Nice!

Insiyah Panju  17:41

So he brings that with him yes to the business. So it helps so but and that's what allows us to ensure the numbers are crisp, like he can't tolerate any inconsistencies in the numbers when it comes to the bookkeeping, and, you know, underwriting deals.

Alfonso Cuadra  17:56

I love that. 

Sibtain Panju  17:56

And we were very careful to structure the systems and processes. Because we've we've had very good mentors, and we've talked a lot of people to through our networking. And so we've been very careful to structure things properly upfront. 

Alfonso Cuadra  18:10

I love that so much. 

Sibtain Panju  18:11

If you don't do that, then you're going back to your point, you're going back to clean up the mess, which takes double the time, right? 

Alfonso Cuadra  18:16

Yes. 

Sibtain Panju  18:16

And then you can make clear decisions until until you know what's going on with your business.

Alfonso Cuadra  18:20

Yeah, people talk about sharpening the pencil, you know, that means that you're going to fudge the numbers, you're going to kind of make it work. You know, "yeah, well, you know, where it was, you know, repairs and maintenance. We don't need that big of a budget." 

And it's never less ever, ever, ever see that it's ever less than you budgeted. It's always more than one. So people are fudging with the numbers where people get in trouble. And so I love that you have that skill set, and you made that transition. And you guys had this tough time with now that you overcame, and you see you have a new perspective on life, and so you're not wasting any time. And so, what are some business tips, give us some business tips that you can offer the people listening.

Insiyah Panju  19:06

So educating yourself is really, really important, right? Because you need different platforms to run your business. You know, you have to figure out what works for you. You have to figure out what your strengths are. And you need to have people in there to fill up all the other roles, right?

Sibtain Panju  19:20

Right, and I think what's also important is connecting yourself with the right people. So we have a whole power team like property managers, realtors, lawyers, accountants, contractors, right? 

So the first contractor that we use was not the one we stuck with right so we we've gone through the hurdles to find the right people that we can replicate the process with and scale the portfolio, right? So I think connecting yourself with the right people and then if you happen to connect with somebody and they don't work out, make that decision quickly to change over.

Alfonso Cuadra  19:51

I love that. You know, hire quickly fire even faster. 

Sibtain Panju  19:55

Right, right. You need to 

Alfonso Cuadra  19:56

Yeah.

Sibtain Panju  19:57

Exactly.

Insiyah Panju  19:58

But we when we do move on from someone We never burn bridges. Right? So it's a very amicable split. And it's, you know, we always leave it open to work with them in the future. Yeah, you know.

Alfonso Cuadra  20:08

But if you do it, if you do it quick enough, then you don't burn that relationship. And you're actually helping them. Because if you are rewarding bad behavior, it's gonna continue on. And they're gonna think they're doing something great until one day, it just gets overwhelming, and you have to pull the business. And then people get the feelings get involved, right, people get emotional. So education, team.

Sibtain Panju  20:31

And then on top of that, I mean, what helped us grow quickly is we spent a lot of time walking through multiple properties.

Alfonso Cuadra  20:38

I love that you said that. I say that to my students all the time. Walkthroughs walkthroughs walkthroughs? How you know what, what it looks like, if you haven't walked in a deal?

Insiyah Panju  20:48

Yeah, you know what, there was a building once that we were looking at Niagara, and we really liked the building, we put in an offer, there was a multiple offer situation, we're kind of going back the the realtor was going back and forth with us and someone else. Anyways, we ended up not getting that property.

But because we had walked it run the numbers on it, it was a 16 unit. So when the 16 unit in Kingston came up, we knew right away what it's worth, we bought it on sight unseen, right? So but you can do that if you've walked the other buildings, right? If you don't have any context, yes. How are you going to know? Yes, you know, so it provides a lot of knowledge.

Sibtain Panju  21:24

And, and like running numbers, you know, the more numbers you run, the more you understand what the rents are on that market, what the vacancy rates are on the market, the more property managers you speak to you learn about the areas in the market. So you got to be constantly connecting with people, as well as doing your homework with the numbers and the models, right and have a really good spreadsheet model that you're using. That you understand inside out.

Alfonso Cuadra  21:47

Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  21:48

Right? 

Alfonso Cuadra  21:48

I love it. So what is the portfolio look like for you guys? Now? Where are you guys now in what markets are you investing in?

Sibtain Panju  21:54

So we're in a few provinces across Canada, we're at 14 buildings right now.

Alfonso Cuadra  21:59

Whoo! Sexy, that's sexy! 

Sibtain Panju  22:05

Two or three of them are single family, though. 

Alfonso Cuadra  22:07

Nice. 

Sibtain Panju  22:07

But- but 14 overall properties. And we're a couple of those that we're looking at land development for as well. So a couple of those multifamily has came with extra land. So we're looking at developing them into between 40 and 60 units, hopefully.

Alfonso Cuadra  22:22

Nice, nice. And what why did you choose to invest, start investing outside of your local market?

Sibtain Panju  22:29

So through networking, we've we've learned different markets very quickly in terms of, you know, we share information with fellow investors as well, and they'll share information with us. So, you know, we had some friends investing in Monkton, we had some funds investing in in Edmonton, for example. 

So we will just talk to them, and we will trade information and see what's working well, what's not working so well. So that's how we sort of expanded our portfolio into different provinces. You know, it's a we're in a few few cities in New Brunswick. We're in Alberta as well, we're Ontario. And then we have a couple of single families in different provinces as well. 

Alfonso Cuadra  23:03

Nice, nice. Most people when they start investing, they're like, "Oh, I need to invest in my backyard." You know? And that's like, a mindset adjustment. You know, and I think it's, it's actually more work if you invest around you, because if something goes wrong, what do you do?

Insiyah Panju  23:19

You want to go see it. I don't want to go see it!

Alfonso Cuadra  23:23

If it's far away, then you call somebody you know, you know, especially when you're dealing with larger, larger buildings, you know, it just makes it a lot easier because you can manage it from far did you have that issue? You have to make that little switch in your mind that it doesn't you don't need to touch it all the time. Like or look at it all the time. It's just

Insiyah Panju  23:43

Well, yeah, I think so initially, I think initially, we wanted to see everything. But when you get a level of comfort after having walked so many buildings, you build really good relationships with the realtors you're working with. And they become your eyes and ears, Right? 

So yeah, that relationship is very important, but also the experience so that you know what they're talking about, you know, what they're referring to, and you know, what you're, what you're looking for, what's the product that you want to purchase? Right? So it becomes a lot clearer that way.

Alfonso Cuadra  24:09

Nice. What's your favorite thing about real estate?

Sibtain Panju  24:12

It's a good question.

Insiyah Panju  24:13

You know what, for me, it's fun, but I love the freedom. I love the freedom to do whatever I want whenever I want teaching. Honestly, I did love it. I loved my students coming in every day was amazing to these kids. But like, you can't even go to the washroom when you want. 

Oh, honestly, you can't right and your your vacation is fixed. You know, and you can't even you know, if there was like, even if there's like a family wedding that you want to attend. If it's during the school months, you're not you're not allowed to go, right? So it becomes really limiting. And, you know, you kind of have to decide what you really want for yourself and your family. You know, because those moments with your family, your kids, it doesn't wait for anybody. 

Alfonso Cuadra  24:52

Yeah.

Sibtain Panju  24:53

I think it's the time freedom and the location freedom and the financial freedom. Obviously you need the financial freedom for the time freedom and the location freedom, right? So-

Alfonso Cuadra  25:02

Well it sucks to have the freedom and then you can't do anything.

Sibtain Panju  25:04

But the flexibility and the freedom that real estate has given us. So we're very grateful for that. Also, we, you know, I've always enjoyed just looking at real estate being around real estate, have always had a passion for real estate. 

And so just seeing the transformation when we renovate something and take it from here to here, right? Or, or, you know, we're talking about building something now, you know, 50-60 units. So we're talking about plans, we're looking at floor plans, all that type of stuff, talking about the unit mixes, right. So it's pretty, it's a creative process, and I certainly enjoy that. 

Alfonso Cuadra  25:38

Yeah.

Insiyah Panju  25:38

I agree. I love the creativity of it.

Alfonso Cuadra  25:41

You guys are rock stars, real estate rockstars. What's your mantra like? What do you live by what inspires you? What was that that "Aha words", or that you heard somewhere, you know, something that you live by?

Sibtain Panju  25:54

So- so I heard these words a long time ago, probably when I was in grade school or high school, like early high school, late grade school. And it's work hard, play hard and pray hard. Right? So, so you got to work hard. But you also got to play hard. What's the point of working hard if you're not playing hard?

Alfonso Cuadra  26:10

 Yeah. 

Sibtain Panju  26:10

And if you're only playing hard, then you don't feel good. Unless you've worked hard. Yeah. So you know, just work hard, play hard and play hard. And everything else falls into place. Right?

Alfonso Cuadra  26:19

I love it. 

Insiyah Panju  26:21

And myself. So I read this quote, I think I'm not sure which book it was, maybe it wasn't seven habits. But he said, between stimulus and response, there's a space. And in that space lies your freedom and power to choose your decision. And in those decisions, lies your freedom and your- your happiness, your growth and your happiness, right? 

So for me, I think, I think that's really important because it allows you to understand that you have freedom to make decisions, right? A lot of people choose to be victims of their circumstance of their life of you know, and they- 

Alfonso Cuadra  26:58

Life is happening to me. 

Insiyah Panju  27:00

Exactly. And I think if more people empower themselves with their ability to choose, they can completely change their life, you know that more than anyone else? 

Alfonso Cuadra  27:09

Let's make life happen. 

Insiyah Panju  27:10

Yeah.

Alfonso Cuadra  27:11

You guys are rock stars, our friends here that are watching and listening, they're going to be able to find all your information it's in the show notes. Thank you so much for stopping by. We're going to definitely do this again. And we're gonna see you all at the top. Whoo! That's it!

Carl Richards  27:31

Thanks for listening to the WealthGenius podcast if you have a question or comment about something you heard today, reach out to the Godfather via social media or email him anytime all that information is in the show notes. And of course, don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode of The WealthGenius Podcast, The WealthGenius Podcast. Until next time, see you at the top!